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BBQDawg
Junior Member
MS
164 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2006 : 19:39:38
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| There is no intention in Jackson to do away with the single shot breech loading weapons that are approved this year. That's mostly hype put out by people who didn't go buy one and are probably hoping something will change next year so they can say they were smart not to go buy one. It's not going to change. There would be a revolt of major proportions and I have been told they do not want that. There has been no outlandish diminishing of the deer population as a result. An inline muzzleloader will kill a deer farther out than one of these 45-70's or 38-55's and they're not going to do away with those either. |
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scpringle
New Member
MS
79 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 09:46:49
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| exactly , i killed my fist deer (doe) friday am with my 45-70 and love it ! it does not have the range of the inline smoke pole but it is much simpler to use and unload .I killed the doe in light privet hedge brush and she droped like a sack of taters !I am so glad the state changed the rules i can hunt with my daughter now in the late season . |
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indiancreekcowboy
Senior Member
MS
1567 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 13:10:52
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If I were to buy the Lee Loader pictured, is there anything else (tools wise) that I should /would need?
It's Better to be Hated for who you are; than Loved for who you're not!
COWBOY
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 13:23:52
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you will need a hammer to tap the shell case into the sizing die.
Virtute et Armis
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2003harley
Starting Member
MS
4 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 15:36:04
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First of all, cleanup is easy with triple 7 in the muzzleloader. I am loading 45-70's with 300gr remingtons and 250gr Barnes x bullets. Breakdown is about $12.50 a box for the rem. and $26.50 for the Barnes. Barnes bullets being almost 7 times higher! This is with the nickel plated Starline brass which is great!
Charles McLean |
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phildaddy
Senior Member
MS
1357 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 15:58:56
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I keep hearing about the 45/70 range being not as much or no more that an inline smoke pole. Since I don't know much about the 45/70, what is an effective range? Nothing specific, just average or general since I know it depends on the loads. I've never had to shoot a deer over 100 yds with my Knight but I feel confident that it would. Thanks. |
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Monticello
Senior Member
1863 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 16:13:07
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The .45-70 range is about 150-165 yards.
Keep on bustin'em! |
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phildaddy
Senior Member
MS
1357 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 17:37:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Monticello
The .45-70 range is about 150-165 yards.
Keep on bustin'em!
Thanks. I may get one for my wife and retire the TC since I don't really want to clean two smoke poles. Besides I have to keep at least one for hunting in Co. They still don't allow Sabots or scopes. Just a few years ago allowed inline rifles. |
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RT8
Advanced Member
MS
5262 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 07:36:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Monticello
The .45-70 range is about 150-165 yards.
Unless you handload (or shoot PMC ammo).
CONTRARY to popular belief, the 45-70 with the 2000fps+ loads is easily a 200yd weapon...assuming it shoots accurately enough. |
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paladinfdo
New Member
MS
57 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 11:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by cwhuntfish
I have enjoyed the new law myself. I went out and purchased the Handi Rifle in the 44Mag caliber and was 2 for 2 with it. The wife can use it during gun seanson and I can use it during muzzleloader season too. Sure is easier to clean than any muzzleloader. I do still have my in-line though just in case.
RESPECT THE OUTDOORS FOR THE NEXT GENERATION
http://www.geocities.com/redrunninkennels/
Hey cwhuntfish, I do not think the 44MAG is a pre-1900 caliber. It was was introduced after around 1940. May want to clarify that.
You Only Live Once, but If You Live Right, Once is Enough |
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 11:48:16
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The rifle must be of a type produced before 1900, not the cartridge it fires. Thus the .44 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .45 Colt, .38-55, 45/70 and .500 S&W etc., would all be legal rounds when fired out of a H&R.
Virtute et Armis
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Edited by - 444M on 02/06/2006 11:49:29 |
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EZWAY
Advanced Member
GLOSTER MISS
3059 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 13:59:58
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I seen a post the other day about they had 45-90 and a 45-120 shells . Would those shells work in the same gun as the 45-70 ? Or is the chamber different ?
Kids that HUNT and FISH :
Don't STEAL and DEAL . |
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 15:01:42
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I don't see why H&R couldn't make a Buffalo Classic in the old blackpowder rounds such as .45-90, .45-120 etc. It may be as simple as reaming the chamber to take the longer rounds. Maybe someone with first hand knowledge will chime in.
Virtute et Armis
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EZWAY
Advanced Member
GLOSTER MISS
3059 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 15:11:55
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Well is the shell of a 45-70 full of powder or could they just add the extra powder to the same size shell ?
Kids that HUNT and FISH :
Don't STEAL and DEAL . |
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SFC3
Advanced Member
KERMUDGEON AT LARGE
4723 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 15:52:14
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Gotta be mucho careful with powder....
Great way to lose your face...
Only thing bait and hunt have in common are they are both 4 letter words |
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hankster
Junior Member
MS
216 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 15:53:35
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444,
I am not sure about the quantity and quality of the metal in the H&R classic to be able to ream it out for a 90 or 120. I do know that this can be done w/ a good quality Sharps or high wall that has the "stuff" to take it.
It would be interresting to see what H&R would have to say about the rechambering.
There is another issue, recoil.
I have shot what I seem to remember being Shilo sharps in 45-90. A heavy, long rifle and it had a pretty stiff recoil. From what I have been told, the recoil from a 45-120 can be stiff enuff to detach a retina. As light as a Buffy classic is, I am not so sure I want any part of a 45-90, much less a 45-120.
R
Hank |
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 16:02:19
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That's a 10-4 on the recoil hankster. That's why I was looking for a .44 Magnum Handi-rifle. I didn't want to try a 45/70 out of a treestand.
"Gotta be mucho careful with powder....
Great way to lose your face..."
Very good advice SFC3. Black powder and its substitutes are not interchangeable with Smokeless Powders. Using the wrong powder in a gun will result in a calamity!
Virtute et Armis
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Edited by - 444M on 02/06/2006 16:05:24 |
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EZWAY
Advanced Member
GLOSTER MISS
3059 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 16:14:37
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If I get a 45-70 it will be the least kicking gun I own . I watched a guy sight his in and it didn't look like it kicked much . He said it was like a 410 or 20 gauge . Next to my 30-06 , 10 gauge and 50 cal knight , that would seem like a toy .
Kids that HUNT and FISH :
Don't STEAL and DEAL . |
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tombstone
Advanced Member
LITTLE CHICAGO
5763 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 16:28:43
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quote:
Originally posted by EZWAY
If I get a 45-70 it will be the least kicking gun I own . I watched a guy sight his in and it didn't look like it kicked much . He said it was like a 410 or 20 gauge . Next to my 30-06 , 10 gauge and 50 cal knight , that would seem like a toy .
Kids that HUNT and FISH :
Don't STEAL and DEAL .
I guess "much" is a relative term. I had a 7mm ULTRA mag and I have a single shot 10 gauge. I have not shot the buffalo classic, but you better make sure your holding on to the handi rifle. Its recoil is certainly comparative to the firearms I previously mentioned. Not unbearable, but definitely an attention getter! |
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 16:29:24
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Keep in mind factory 45/70 is loaded at anemic levels due to all the old Trapdoors and other weak actions out there. Special manufacturers such as Buffalo Bore and Garrett's are loaded up to the 45/70's full potential and will kick mucho gusto!
Virtute et Armis
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tombstone
Advanced Member
LITTLE CHICAGO
5763 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 16:44:07
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quote:
Originally posted by 444M
Keep in mind factory 45/70 is loaded at anemic levels due to all the old Trapdoors and other weak actions out there. Special manufacturers such as Buffalo Bore and Garrett's are loaded up to the 45/70's full potential and will kick mucho gusto!
Virtute et Armis
I want to see those new hornady's coming out. They ought to have that added punch |
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hankster
Junior Member
MS
216 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 18:51:32
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There is a world of difference in having a Sharps full length rifle and a handi rifle loaded w/ hot 45-70.
One is a nice health shove, the other has the potential to knock fillings out.
R
Hank |
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 19:04:39
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A few years ago, my 12 year old nephew invited me down to shoot his new "Turkey Gun". Heck yeah says me. It was a NEF single-shot with 3.5" chamber, synthetic stock and short barrel (i guess about 22 to 24 inch). I should have known something was up when everyone stood back and held their fingers in their ears. WAHOOOM!! The forearm bucked out of my left hand and the stock dang near broke my right cheek and I staggered back a step or two. As I regained my senses, the crowd gathered around were guffawing at me. i'm 6'0" and about 280lbs and that little black gun nailed me. The shell I fired was a federal 3.5 turkey load.
Virtute et Armis
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EZWAY
Advanced Member
GLOSTER MISS
3059 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 08:15:58
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I am going to have to make him let me shoot it when I see him during turkey season . He is a little fellow and it didn't look like it was kicking him much . I don't know what type bullets they were but I know they were 405 grains .
Kids that HUNT and FISH :
Don't STEAL and DEAL . |
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444M
Senior Member
CONFEDERATE-AMERICAN
1839 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2006 : 08:24:09
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Most likely your friend was shooting Green Box Remington 405gr. Here is Ballistic info from Remingtons' Chart.
Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R4570G Remington® Express® 405 Soft Point 9 1/2 0.281
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 405 1330 1168 1055 977 918 869
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge_Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 405 1590 1227 1001 858 758 679
Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 405 zero -4.0 -14.5 -32.0 -57.5 -90.6
Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 405 zero -8.5 -24.0 -47.4 -78.6 -169.4 -301.3
As you can see, the 405gr bullet is only traveling 1,330fps at the muzzle. Pretty tame stuff.
Now Buffalo Bore lists their 405gr load at 2,000fps. A whole different animal.
405 gr. J.F.N. (2000 fps / M.E. 3597 ft. lbs.) Note the Muzzle Energy of this load, over twice that of the 405 Rem.
(Big game up to 1000 lbs. - Expander Load)
Virtute et Armis
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Edited by - 444M on 02/07/2006 08:41:08 |
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45-70?