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eatdeer
New Member
MS.
95 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2009 : 15:50:22
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sorry for the delay rh, had to finish processing a deer. you are using 2 different terms in contaminated and adulterated. Under USDA regs. Any contaminated meat must be destroyed (it is considered unwholesome to eat), adulterated can be reworked under proper conditons and with prior approval, difficult but not impossible(a water added ham is adulterated if it has too much water). And no, deer meat is no more contaminated/adulterated than home slaughtered animals. Considered "custom" and allowed to be processed in an inspected facility under the "not for sale" heading. But just as a custom meat processor is inspected from time to time, so should a deer processor. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe we need any more inspectors, but if a custom meat processor has to be permitted then so should a deer processor. If someone wants to process custom animals and charge for it, they will have to meet food safety guidelines. What's different for a deer? The level playing field is the fact that we both have acceptable equipment and facilites. Plus a program to insure we deliver acceptable products. No one should be able to do it in an area not made for food processing. Try this scenario: an uninspected deer processor makes some fresh patty sausage for a hunter, uses some beef from a local supplier. The beef has E-coli. The hunter has a party for his kid and cooks some hamburgers. One of the burgers is not fully cooked and the kid down the street dies from ingesting E-coli. Who's liable? Similar one only this time it's pork that has Salmonella. Oh by the way both of these pathogens have a tolerence level which means it is possible to have some present in meat. How about this one, the processor just bagged some raw steaks on a SS table. Walks away to greet another customer, his helper puts some smoked sausages on the table to pack thinking its clean. The hunter takes a bite of what he thinks is a cooked sausage. Developes a bad case of indigestion, only to find out he has listeria poisoning. Again don't get me wrong, mistakes happen to anybody, there is no such thing as a perfect world. But if someone is looking over your shoulder, you will be more careful. And if we all meet the same guidelines, that is a safety factor in itself. When the first proven case of food poisoning is attributed to a deer processor, we might all be in trouble. But at least I know I'm trying to get it right.
Oh, good luck on your hunt! |
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deerbutcher
Starting Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 22:16:35
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| If a deer comes into your facility and is covered with grass, leaves, a little mud, hair, bullet fragments, stool, etc. Does having an inspected facility make this situation better? Don't get me wrong, most of the deer I get is pretty much clean, but I get a few that make me wonder. It's never gonna be perfect. |
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rhprocesser
Junior Member
MS
115 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 05:07:26
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back again. deerbutcher beat me to the point I was going to make. I would have to disagree with "deer meat is no more contaminated/adulterated than home slaughtered animals" statement. Ever seen "farmer John Doe" shoot a pig on his farm in 65 degree weather, not find it for two hours, gut it in the woods, ride it around in a truck to show off for three more hours before finally getting home with it only to let in hang in the barn for a day or two just because "its in the shade"?
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Edited by - rhprocesser on 10/29/2009 05:28:31 |
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rhprocesser
Junior Member
MS
115 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 05:28:09
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the e.coli situation would go back to the INSPECTED establishment, for failing to meet required regulations dealing with E.coli. The deer processer should have been purchasing a wholesome product but the inspected facility failed to provide that for him, now someone is sick or worse. So now all of your inspected facilities, your HACCP programs, "not for sale" labels, GMP's, SSOP's, letters of guarantee, CCP's, and whatever else you have (paperwork), still didn't stop someone from getting sick or dying. Educating the general public on properly cooking and handling meat is a far greater safety tool in reducing pathogens.
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Edited by - rhprocesser on 10/29/2009 05:37:55 |
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eatdeer
New Member
MS.
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 11:01:50
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ok guys, first off, you control what comes into your facility, inspection can only help if you comply with the food safety regs. db, many deer come in like that and it's best always work them last, plus clean 'em up as you go. I also use an anti microbial sanitizer just to make sure. rh, you made my point, "joe farmer and his hog sounded like Joe hunter and his trophy buck. And yes I have seen Joe farmer kill his prized calf and load it into his pickup to carry it to the meat market.
Sorry to tell you any of the scenarios would start back at the deer processor. Last point before the consumer. Being you used several terms from food safety, I assume you have some training/experience in it. Then you would know it's those programs that provide you with proof you did things properly in your fcility. How can you prove the e.coli came from the inspected plant? Now, why would you want to take the time and the investment to do the best job you can only to have someone set up a shed and start processing deer close by without any care other than "can do it cheaper". Don't you think(rephrased KNOW) all deer processors will get a bad rap when someone taking short cuts messes up? Come on guys, it's our business and livelyhood. How can you be against improving it to eliminate the risk takers. Don't fault me for trying to improve it.
By the way good luck to both of you, hope ya'll have a very productive season. and Ken sayheaveno to all my friends in Raceland. |
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eatdeer
New Member
MS.
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 11:05:36
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| that was supposed to say "HELLO to my friends". Man I gotta stop playing on the computer when I have some work to do. |
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rhprocesser
Junior Member
MS
115 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 13:09:25
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"Then you would know it's those programs that provide you with proof you did things properly in your facility." I wouldn't say proof, it's just paperwork saying you did. I'm sure your daily sanitation says everything is clean, but we both know any inspector can come in and find something that's "dirty". Remember, there's no such thing as a perfect plant. Next, E.coli originates from BEEF, not swine, deer, chicken, or goats. So, one could conclude that if the neighbor down the road got sick from deer burger from e.coli, then the e.coli had to come from the BEEF fat added to the burger, which came from a USDA inspected facility. Therefore, an inspected facility produced a contaminated product for the public, NOT THE DEER PROCESSER. And being inspected automatically gives the deer processer a letter of guarantee of a wholesome product, in which your proof is not proof. And you know a letter of guaranty would place the fault on an inspected facility, where it rightfully came from.
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eatdeer
New Member
MS.
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 17:03:15
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| you kinda lost me in there somewhere. These programs only show you attempted to take the neccessary precautions. But you are right no such thing as a perfect plant and an inspector is not worth his salt if he can't identify the area the plant is lacking. By the way my sanitation form does not say everything is clean. It states actual conditions and sometimes that means I missed something and have to correct it before I begin, which is then recorded. Don't fool yourself either, large processors have deep pockets and it will not be easy to attribute any problems to them unless you have a very thorough program and a good lawyer. Oh, E.coli is not just on beef, remember the spinach recall, or how about the green onions? Do you use those in your products? Think about it this way, if you are a legitimate processor, I'm trying to look out for you. I'm done with this thread. Like I said ealier, Good luck! |
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Health ?